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| Tien (Kikoho) vs Cell form 1 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 11 2008, 11:42 AM (2,884 Views) | |
| Tien_kikoho | Feb 11 2008, 11:42 AM Post #1 |
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This is just after Cell has absorbed 30000 humans and arrived on the battle field where 17 is fighting Piccolo. I know a lot of you will think that this is an absurd question considering that Tien is very weak warrior(in comparison to others). But I think the fact that Tien stopped Cell in form 2 means a lot. Gohan did something to similar effect against Frieza by firing a masenko and everyone remarks about his incredible power. Frieza was overpowered by the maenko for a while. However, Frieza still manages to deflect the masenko in gohan's direction. Tien's kikoho also overpowered Cell to a great extent and cell was not even able to deflect it in Tien's direction. The power and thrust of the attack was so huge that even powerful warriors like #18 could not handle it and we can see them looking for cover, falling on the ground due to the trembling.When Tien is gathering the life force for the attack, you can see the shocked look on cell's face. He did not anticipate that the attack would have such huge power. Also, when Tien finally gives up, cell remarks " how could a weakling like that stop me". Note that Imperfect Cell is much much stronger than Cell form 1 (after absorbing humans) who defeated Kamicolo and 17 with ease. So of course, if Tien had used the Kikoho on Cell form 1, the effects would have been much adverse seeing how it effected Cell form 2. I'm not insinuating anything over here nor am I saying Tien would win (it would be foolish to say that) but I would just like to know your opinions. On a side note, I was watching a DB episode today where Tien and Goku fight for the first time. Tien decides to use Kikoho and Roshi warns saying that Kikoho is a deadly attack which rivals kameha meha. But then after tien fires kikoho, he says " I was a fool to compare ka me ha meha with this one. There is no comparison at all. This attack is far more powerful". |
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| + Rebel X | Feb 11 2008, 11:53 AM Post #2 |
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Actually I don't think it's too obsurd to think about. Many times in the series Tien was quite powerful. He's beat goku as a child and alot of times you can compare him to piccolo because many times in the series he and piccolo were both equal in power. I think if Tien faced Cell 1 with the powers he had against Cell 2 then he could have possibly defeted Cells first form. |
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| Xian Tianhan | Feb 11 2008, 05:21 PM Post #3 |
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"Throw down your arms and prepare to be violated!"
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Hell no. As much as I love Tienshinhan, the Kikoho would not have been anywhere near the amount of power needed to destroy 1st form Cell. #16 was actually stronger than 1st form Cell and he used his most powerful attack on him (The Hells Flash i think it was called) and that did hardly bugger all. Plus the Kikoho didn't actually hurt Cell 2nd form in any way, it had just enough power to restrict his movements. A Kikoho would of had the exact same effect on 1st form Cell...maybe it'd have given him a sun burn or something
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| + Rebel X | Feb 11 2008, 11:05 PM Post #4 |
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For once I think i'm actually kinda second-guessing that. Ur right Tien made him restricted in movements. but I dunno I still think thiers a possiblity that Tien stands a chance of defeating Cell 1 |
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| UltimateGohan | Feb 12 2008, 02:24 AM Post #5 |
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he would last a bit but not long, bcuz tien is around the power of android 17 when he fights him in his 2nd form and cell is stronger that #17, so yea there we go ;p lol |
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| SSJ3raditz | Feb 12 2008, 02:24 AM Post #6 |
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Tien's Ki Ko Ho is nowhere close to killing Imperfect Cell. The Ki Ko Ho would probably immobilize Imperfect Cell(Gingertown) and slightly damage Imperfect Cell(Islands). It didn't even damage Semi-Perfect Cell(All it did was push him downwards), so it wouldn't do much damage anyways. |
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| UltimateGohan | Feb 12 2008, 03:04 AM Post #7 |
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ok but were talking about cell in his 1st form not second form, and if that was enough to hold him offf, im pretty sure that it could ingure or even destroy cell in his 1st form, hes o so so so so so so so so so so much weaker in his 1st form than 2nd android 17 gave him a huge boost, tien would win |
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| Tien_kikoho | Feb 12 2008, 07:18 AM Post #8 |
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Hell's flash did a lot of damage to cell. You see Goku commenting " Cell's power took a nose dive". |
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| gripton | Feb 12 2008, 10:48 AM Post #9 |
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Tien gets stomped hard. Then when he dies he re-challenges Nappa who's been training with Raditz and gets stomped again. |
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| Sam | Feb 12 2008, 11:05 AM Post #10 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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Of course, Cell would win! Ten can only shoot a few. When he used them on Semi-Perfect Cell all he could do really is hold him down. The attack cannot be deflected. I've never seen the Kikoho be deflected (I haven't read or seen Dragonball forever though, so, it may have happened in DB). Cell can regenerate, Ten may be able to damage Cell a bit in the Gingertown appearance, enough to ***** him off, he'd be drained severely, he couldn't even move after he shot about a dozen of the Kikoho's, and fell to the ground immobilized and beaten. Do you think that's enough to kill Imperfect Cell? No. It probably wouldn't even knock a limb off. That's like comparing Nappa to Ten when he shot his Kikoho, it scared Nappa, and left his back a bit singed, but, Nappa just laughed it off. Anyone who says Ten could win this needs to re-watch or re-read (recommended) the entire series over again. Why, if Ten is SO powerful, did he not go and fight Cell the first chance he got? Surely he could've killed Cell compared to Piccolo, the strongest character in the series. |
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| Tien_kikoho | Feb 13 2008, 07:47 AM Post #11 |
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I myself stated in the first post that it would be foolish to say Tien will win. We are merely discussing how his Kikoho (which is much much higher than Tien's base power) would fair against first form cell. I'm interested in seeing what different opinions people come up with. I think the Nappa analogy is not quite correct. First of all, the ratio between power level's of Nappa and Tien is much smaller (4000/1830) than the one between Cell and Tien(Tien is not even in miillions, Cell makes Super Saiyan or a Super Namek look child's play). Cell is insanely stronger than Tien, Tien's power is negligible against Cell. Also, when Tien fired the kikoho at Nappa he had already lost most of his energy fighting with Nappa and he lost his other arm as well. Even Vegeta said " Too bad it would have worked if Nappa hadn't seen him at the last moment ". The beam was very powerful, strong enough to kill Nappa but it was slow and hence Nappa saw it coming. Nappa didn't 'laugh it off' either. He was shocked and says " Oh that was a close one". He laughed off after chaotzu did the suicide attack on Nappa saying " your friend couldn't save you three eyes". Remember, this is the effect it would have had if Tien fired it with only a fraction of his energy and with just one hand.
We are not talking about Tien's base strength. We are talking about his Kikoho. Because the attack was able to hold of cell, it had to be at least a x100 multiplier in order for that to happen, because at this stage Cell's power is in the order of 100 millions while Tien's power level is at the most in the order of 100 thousands(I did some calculations based on the power level increase that he got in Saiyan saga and then used it to extrapolate the power level after king kai's training(266 days on Kai's planet) + 10 months + 3 years assuming Tien trains consistently which is not implausible given his attitude). There is huge disparity between Second form cell and first form cell in terms of power level. Tien is not powerful but the Kikoho multiplies his power level immensely. The reason why he did not go and fight cell is quite simply because he was afraid, lacked confidence in his abilities and probably thought 17, piccolo or 16 would do away with cell anyway so he waited. Plus, he was not a part of the 'plan' that Goku and Krillin were talking about. That's why you see Goku is disturbed when Tien jumps into the battle field. It's the same thing what Gohan did during Frieza fight by staying on the sidelines but saved Piccolo twice when it became absolutely essential. One thing I find strange is everyone gives credit to gohan for stopping Frieza 3rd form; however, when Tien did the same, most people still undermine him. Later when he sees cell beating piccolo to near death, absorbing 17, and ripping off 16's brain he realizes he has no option left but to stop cell at any cost. It was all up to him. He says to himself " Ok tien, What would Goku do if he was in the same situation ? He would do anything to stop cell form absorbing those androids, even die." When he fires the first kikoho, he himself is amazed about his abilities and says " Oh boy Tien you have really done it this time ". |
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| Sam | Feb 13 2008, 03:49 PM Post #12 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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A lot of that is just filler buddy. Nappa didn't even flinch when he got hit in the Manga. He just went, "Oooh, don't scare me like that!" When it hit his back, Ten looked surprised and fell to the ground dead. The kikoho from what I've seen is incredibly fast. When Piccolo half-died and #16 was incapacitated right before Cell acted on #18 a huge 'ZANG' came from the sky and shot Cell into the ground. Ten wasn't at all surprised by this, instead, hollered at #18 to get out of there, he continued this for awhile until he fell to the ground, unable to move, and Goku came and saved him along with the half-dead Piccolo. It's true the Kikoho is a powerful move but could only hold Cell off, 2nd form Cell and he wasn't even at full power yet. Yes, the difference between him and high power level 1st stage Imperfect Cell is big, but, I don't think it would do something as make it able for Ten to destroy Cell. |
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
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| Xian Tianhan | Feb 13 2008, 07:25 PM Post #13 |
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"Throw down your arms and prepare to be violated!"
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I'm sorry, but some people on this thread REALLY need to re-read/watch the manga/anime.
tut tut tut, UltimateGohan, I'm shocked. I usually respect your DBZ knowledge. Tien fought 17 and got creamed remember? In that time up until the fight with Second Form Cell there's no way his powerlevel could have increased into the 100millions.
No, no, no! This isn't a matter of opinion here, it's just common sense. Tien powerlevel is at best in the 100 thousands. Cell first form is well into the 100millions. Remember in Cell's timeline before he moved to the past he had just enough power to destroy Trunks so he could steal his spaceship!
Goku never says that in the manga. Thus it is filler. And anyway my point was that even though #16 was clearly stronger than Cell first form, he still couldn't kill him even with his most powerful blast. So what chance would Tien have?
Corrupt[ed]'s right, this is all filler. You can complain about all the dumbass things said by the characters all you want, but at the end of the day, if it's filler then it's inconsistant with the original Toriyama plot, and so therefore doesn't count.
x100?!!! Optimistic much? Goku had to transform to SSJ4 in order to fire a x100 Kamehameha. Whilst I agree that the Kikoho is stronger than a normal-strength kamehameha, there's no way it's a x100 multiplier! That's just silly.
That's stupid. If Tien knew he had even a small chance at defeating Cell, he'd take it. Think about it, the world is in danger and you have a chance at saving it, what would you do? Plus you can't really call yourself much of a Tienshinhan fan if you're calling him "afraid". He went up against the Cell Jr's didn't he? Even though he knew he had no chance of beating them he still gave it a try.
Erm...have you forgotten about Gohan's hidden power? That's why he was able to pummel Frieza. He had a short energy burst that didn't last long enough. Remember, once Frieza had re-gained controlled he creamed Gohan. Tien's upper-hand against Cell was completely different. It wasn't a case of a temporary power-boost, it was just dumb luck that Tien mnaged to catch him off guard. Seriously, guys, no matter how much the Kikoho raises Tien's powerlevel, there's no way it'd destroyed first form Cell. I can't believe we're even having this conversation. It's like comparing Chuck Norris to Pee Wee Herman. |
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"R.I.P HD-DVD...There can be only one" If I insult you in any way, then you probably deserve it. ![]() Thanks to Yuki for the sig! ^^ "Music's the only thing that makes sense any more, man...you play it loud enough, it keeps the demons at bay" - JoJo (Martin Luther McCoy), "Across the Universe" | |
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| Sam | Feb 13 2008, 10:06 PM Post #14 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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Xian Tianhan's got it. Lmao, I like the Chuck Norris vs Peewee Herman comparison. Though, if Peewee got the entire house to attack Chuck he may cut Chuck once or twice. |
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
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| Famicommander | Feb 14 2008, 04:38 AM Post #15 |
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Jukebox hero
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Tien would certainly be able to damage Cell a lot more than he was able to when Cell was in his second form, but he wouldn't even come close to destroying him. He immobilized 2nd form Cell (and possibly damaged him a little bit), but ultimately Cell was able to withstand the attacks until Tien ran out of energy. Cell was just fine after Goku saved Tien. I have to think that Tien's tri-beam would cause some damage to form 1 Cell, but you're forgetting a few key factors: 1) Tri-beam takes a tremendous toll on the user. Tien wouldn't be able to hold out for very long 2) Cell has the ability to regenerate, so even in the unlikely even that Tien is able to cause significant damage, he'd have to destroy every individual cell in Cell's body. 3) The power level difference is still quite massive. Humans are simply too limited in the series to make a significant impact after the Frieza saga. |
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